Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Serg Ivanov » Ср 25 июл 2018 2:44 pm

DIMMI писал(а):Песков же сказал верить ВВП - надо верить!

Надо:
https://youtu.be/okS76WHh6FI

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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Кирилл » Чт 26 июл 2018 7:48 pm

Немаленький аппарат... Есть еще интересный момент. В обычной крылатой ракете большой дальности существенную часть снаряженной массы составляет топливо (может быть в районе 50% общей массы). Здесь же все топливо судя по всему - несколько десятков килограммов обогащенного урана в реакторе. При таких солидных габаритах ракеты, какую термоядерную боеголовку туда можно поставить!
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Seerg Ivanov » Пт 27 июл 2018 12:30 am

Кирилл писал(а):Немаленький аппарат... Есть еще интересный момент. В обычной крылатой ракете большой дальности существенную часть снаряженной массы составляет топливо (может быть в районе 50% общей массы). Здесь же все топливо судя по всему - несколько десятков килограммов обогащенного урана в реакторе. При таких солидных габаритах ракеты, какую термоядерную боеголовку туда можно поставить!

Ну так кроме урана сам реактор и его оборудование весят не мало. Так что БЧ скорее всего стандартная - массой 500 кг. Это до 2Мгт. Интересна и обратная конвертация - бак керосина и ДТРД вместо ЯСУ. Для испытаний и конвенциональных БЧ. Дальность такого варианта может превышать 5500 км. Т.е. КР выходит из под договора о запрете КР средней дальности.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Кирилл » Пт 27 июл 2018 3:40 pm

Seerg Ivanov писал(а):]
Ну так кроме урана сам реактор и его оборудование весят не мало. Так что БЧ скорее всего стандартная - массой 500 кг. Это до 2Мгт.

Возможно. С другой стороны в свое время SLAM несла (должна была нести) целых 14 мегатонных термоядерных блоков, которые занимали большую часть внутреннего объема ракеты, а ее реактор был достаточно небольшим и компактным (для своей колоссальной мощности).
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Вт 07 авг 2018 4:34 pm

Hi Evgeni! Hi Folks!

Meanwhile something is going on at Pankovo.

If you compare images from June 2017 and June 2018 you can see the difference.
The protective tent and the blue canisters seen on the video of President Putins speech in March are visible now!
First I thought it would be the launch site which was used at the end of 2017 but at a closer look it seems that the launch site is a little bit further to the south and the arrangement of the canisters and the tent is a little bit different.
We would need Evgeni to check this :-)
So it might be that they are preparing yet another test of the missile.
Cheers
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Ср 08 авг 2018 3:02 pm

the logistic of the new test site seems to be supported by the small airstrip just 3km south of Pankovo
A new hangar is erected and several vehicles are visible
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Ср 08 авг 2018 7:40 pm

Chippendale писал(а):Hi Evgeni!

Hi! That's cool! I was a bit mistaken with the position of the starting point, considering that it is closer to the building with four ventilation chimneys.

The protective structure is shifted before launch.
wtf.jpg
wtf.jpg (14.62 Кб) Просмотров: 2522


It is difficult to say anything new, but serious investments in the test infrastructure indicate that the tests of these weapons will continue for a long time, it is hoped for new photos and videos from the launches.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение rambo54 » Ср 08 авг 2018 8:52 pm

Hi Evgeni!

I think you are right. The position which is unveiled now seems to be "the one and only" launch position. Also for the test back in 2017.
It is incredible that you found and analysed this site. This is your merit!
Meanwhile many people around Jeffrey Lewis and other are talking about it. I wrote him that is was your work.
Without your analysis they would still search for it a Nenoksa :-)

BTW: that shifting tent...I saw the same structure at the new site at Kapustin Yar which is said (by Jane's) that it is "Nudol-related".
I found it because right now I'm looking for everything which has new dark green roofs in order to find the base of the new Laser sytem "Peresvet" :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... hDvDFb3lM0

The test pad is here 48.648224°45.984692° supported by a huge facility over here 48.605020°45.983573°
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Ср 08 авг 2018 9:09 pm

Hi Rambo!

Wow! The test site in Kapustin Yar has too much in common with the test site in Pankovo, which would be a coincidence. It is logical that the preliminary tests without the use of a nuclear engine were conducted in Kapustin Yar.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Ср 08 авг 2018 9:16 pm

Hi Evgeni!

Have a look at the "support site" at Kapustin Yar 48.605020°45.983573° - it's huge! Looks more like a huge power station...
What the hell is this.....
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Ср 08 авг 2018 9:46 pm

Chippendale писал(а):What the hell is this.....

IMHO, looks like an arsenal (solid-fuel rockets or warheads) with maintenance zones or assembly halls. Warehouses are protected by embankment and the pipelines are supplied with a heat carrier for heating storage. However, some pipelines do not go anywhere, and it's strange, but it's possible that this is a reserve for the expansion of the complex. In the lower right corner of the complex there is a thermal power station working on coal, perhaps it is only a reserve source.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Ср 08 авг 2018 10:06 pm

might well be! I just was confused because the new launch pad is conected by a new road directly to this "support complex"
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Nudol_new launch site_48.628648° 45.985973°.jpg
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Чт 09 авг 2018 12:54 am

So this arsenal is used to provide missile launches during testing or training. Protected storage facilities can store components of missile weapons (rocket boosters, warheads, pyro-cartridges, etc.), in buildings missiles are assembled and tested before firing.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Чт 09 авг 2018 1:20 am

Евгений писал(а):So this arsenal is used to provide missile launches during testing or training. Protected storage facilities can store components of missile weapons (rocket boosters, warheads, pyro-cartridges, etc.), in buildings missiles are assembled and tested before firing.


Yeah ..but I wonder how big this facility is. Quite an effort for a system still in its early stage of development.
So it might be supporting the launch site connected to it. This could be 9M730 - although (as far as I know) there was never a report that this system was / is under test at Kap Yar. If so then the later tests (with nuc motor) will be happened at Novaja Smelja.
So why to built such a huge facility for only a handful of early test launches?

If (!) Jane's is right assuming the support for "Nudol" it is a miracle too. I think there was just one confirmed test at KY but 4 or 5 at Plesetsk.
So there should be similiar logistic or launch tents at Plesetsk.
I looked around all over Plesetsk - I can confirm that what rambo54 already posted here in his last post
viewtopic.php?f=330&t=987&start=40
There are some activities at the old BSP-5 (SS-16) support complex but nothing like the new tents at Kap Yar or Novaja Smelja and there is nothing like the new huge support complex at KY.
:unknown:
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Чт 09 авг 2018 4:28 am

Chippendale писал(а):
Евгений писал(а):Yeah ..but I wonder how big this facility is.

I agree that for tests of one type of missile the complex looks too large and for the universal it has many limitations. Another surprise is how quickly it was built ... The high density of buildings, the communications tower, the relatively small number of administrative buildings and the serious perimeter security... Oh, wait... This looks like... Real base of the Strategic Missile Forces with land-based mobile missile system?! :shock:

Perhaps this is the position for "experienced combat duty" - I do not know how to translate this term correctly, it means deploying prototypes in the army for obtaining initial experience of its operation in real conditions, on the basis of the gained experience, armament (and infrastructure) is finalized and launched in mass production.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Чт 09 авг 2018 1:33 pm

I know what you mean - that would make sense - especially for Kapustin Yar.
But in this case the road connection and the small pad in the north would be IRBM/ICBM related too.
SRBM like Iskander are tested from site 71 or site 231. Then we have a gap between 500km - 5000km range.
For mobile ICBMs the pad would be too small.
Moreover just in the moment when we capture the "RS-26" on sat image it was announced that this system would be most probably cancelled :-)
RS-24 is well established in field units and tested from Plesetsk. RS-28 is tested from Plesetsk too.
The question is what sort of SSM or cruise missile would they support from there...
Well - future will tell us (maybe)

BTW: there is really just one road connection to the small pad by the road coming from the "support" complex.
The "support" complex itself is connected to the main road which passes the well known R-1/V-2 memorial site
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facility.jpg
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Chippendale » Чт 09 авг 2018 5:00 pm

the comparison between the protective tents of the new launch sites at Pankovo (9M730) and Kapustin Yar is stunning.
Both tents measure about 19x9m
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Вс 12 авг 2018 3:11 pm

Hi Rambo!

rambo54 писал(а):Meanwhile many people around Jeffrey Lewis

I'm sorry, who is this? To my shame, do not know foreign specialists :oops:

rambo54 писал(а): I'm looking for everything which has new dark green roofs in order to find the base of the new Laser sytem "Peresvet" :-)

IMHO, the base with "Peresvet" is not located in Kapustin Yar.

Tests of laser weapons require special infrastructure, the USSR built next to Moscow a test site called "Raduga" ("Радуга"/"Rainbow")). In Kapustin Yar it is possible to conduct some tests with shooting on air targets.

There are two videos with "Peresvet": from the Putin's presentation and from the military base with the departure of the column.

The nature of both videos is similar to the central part of Russia - a mixed forest of spruce and birch trees with a dense undergrowth and swamps. This combination can be found in many regions and even in some regions of Siberia, but not in the steppes of the lower part of the Volga.

I think that the video from Putin's presentation was filmed on tests, as there are only trucks with a laser and a power source on the video, there are no support vehicles. Most likely, it was filmed on the "Raduga", because there is the same nature and the same long straight road.

On the video with the military base, we see a prefabricated shelter for vehicles and buildings for personnel, possibly, it's production of "DoorHan" company (PDF with solutions of this manufacturer), the base itself is quite fresh, the grass has not grown yet, but in the background is seen the building from reinforced concrete probably built in the USSR. The base subordinated to the military space forces and requires communications with the central command. I think that the base is located near Moscow, next to one of the air defense or missile defense bases. Perhaps this place is not far from the "Raduga" test site, as the "Peresvet is new system and it needs periodic checks and tests. If you have access to new satellite imagery of the Moscow region, you can try to survey the areas of the old positions of the S-25 system, especially in the northeast direction from Moscow, as well as those who deployed the missile defense position.
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение rambo54 » Вс 12 авг 2018 10:46 pm

Hi Evgeni!
Thank you so much for your answer!
Jeffrey Lewis is an miliary analyst
https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/author/jeffrey/
@ArmsControlWonk

Laser: yes I agree - it is not in Kapustin Yar.
Moscow was also my idea.
With your hints in mind I will check the suburbs again. I found something but I don't think it is a match 56.052930°38.505344°
Maybe I'm lucky. If I see something I will post it here.
Cheers

P.S.: 55.577887° 36.990454° thought I had it...but :-(
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Re: Ракета 9М730 / Крылатая ракета с ЯЭУ

Сообщение Евгений » Пн 13 авг 2018 7:20 pm

Hi Rambo!
rambo54 писал(а):I found something but I don't think it is a match 56.052930°38.505344°

Maybe ... but not very similar, although I did not find new high-quality images of this place

rambo54 писал(а):55.577887° 36.990454°

it's some kind of barracks, perhaps a training complex, but there is no serious guard here as on the positions bearing combat duty.
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